Rizing Evolution – The Future Proofed Enterprise Podcast
Episode 10 Transcript: Decoding and Navigating Digital First VS. Customer First
(Editors note: this transcript was machine generated then lightly edited. You can read a summary, watch the original episode or see the list of all podcast episodes.)
Narrator
Welcome to a fresh perspective on business technology. This Rizing Evolution – the future proofed enterprise presented by Rizing, a Wipro company. You’ll hear from business and technology innovators who know how to use the latest technologies and business strategies to transform histories and importantly, how these technologies and strategies can be shaped to your business needs in your way, help your organization move in exciting new directions. Now here’s your host and moderator, Bonnie D Graham.
Bonnie Graham
Thank you to the lady with a nice voice, Bonnie D in the house. Happy to be here. This Rizing Evolution. We’ve got a great show for you. I posted on LinkedIn earlier today. What are you doing in two hours and 30 minutes? Cause we have a topic we’re going to talk about that impacts everybody. In this everywhere in the world, regardless of where you are, if you have a customer, if you have a bunch of customers, you’re going to want to hear this. So here we go. I’m going to start with a little poem that I cowrote and I’ve established with my guests that I’m still human. Right, Josh and Tara and Martin. I’ll introduce them in a minute. I’m the human who edits what ChatGPT? The AI through me. So here we go. Everybody listen up. In the radio waves, where insights unfold, a journey today, both daring and bold. That’s for you, Josh. Digital first meets customer first, we explore a nexus of tech and experience galore. Tara gamble. Wait. Hello. Camp Tara. SAP visionary at elf beauties. Helm crafting a journey in the strategic realm with Esfahani. Private cloud and helps SAP delight. She shapes the digital future, painting it bright. Did you like that? Oh, oh, oh, good, good. And we have Martin Stenzig. He’s back. The CTO with innovation in his stride. Take a stride, Martin at Rizing in Wipro where SAP BTP reside, driving adoption and benefits for the brand in this technological dance, Martin takes a stand. Do you like that?
Tara Gambill
Very much very much.
Bonnie Graham
Martin.
Martin Stenzig
Love it? Need to add it to my profile somehow so.
Bonnie Graham
I’ll send it to you and Josh Greenbaum. I’ll call you our provocateur, industry analyst with 30 years in tow, pioneered enterprise software coverage in the 80s. He’s in the know. Now advises where we bridge tech expectations belong. His research in anthropology and evolution is strong. Josh, I did that myself from your bio like that. So hosted by Bonnie D, Our compass. So true. See, I’m facing in the right direction. We decode the strategies old and new.
Joshua Greenbaum
That was good, OK.
Bonnie Graham
TuneIn watch or listen. It’s your choice. We’re Rizing evolution. The future-proofed enterprise voice. What do you all think? Just like.
Tara Gambill
It well done. Well done.
Bonnie Graham
Thank you. Thank you.
Joshua Greenbaum
Yeah, new profession coming up, yeah.
Bonnie Graham
There you go. Josh, I didn’t like what it wrote for you. I had one word stumble in there. But I wrote that myself. With the rhymes and everything. Because I wanted to acknowledge your very interesting bio. So welcome to Tara gamble. I’m giving you the speaker order. Welcome to Martin Stenzig. Welcome to Josh Greenbaum and a shout out, of course, to Sherry Ann. We’ve got a couple more weeks to go, so let’s go around the table and get BIOS. Tara, I have a little clock set for three minutes. We want to hear everything you’ve ever done in your entire professional life, and why you’re here talking about this in 3 minutes. So, Tara, you’re new to the show. We’re so happy to have you. Welcome. And go ahead. I’m putting you on speaker if you go.
Tara Gambill
All right. Well, thank you so much, Bonnie. I’m so happy to be here. And also in the presence of you all when I think about what to squeeze into 3 minutes, it is a bit of a challenge. I’ve been doing technology for, you know, over a couple of decades, I think back to my own ethnography, Josh, a little bit of, you know, this pre digital. Even when I started in the industry. And I have, you know, pretty much I think lots of notches on my belt for just about every kind of role in IT through the years. I’ve been really fortunate to partner with some amazing companies in my career, to your point with really interesting customers. And I think that’s also not just that. External customer, but my internal customers because the part of technology I’ve been focused on more than anything has been traditionally more back office. You know that’s I’ve been chasing that customer all these years, is kind of how I feel about it, whether it’s the one externally or my employees and the experiences that we can provide to employees, you know, through digital, etcetera. Right now I have been at Elf Beauty for running on four months, so I’m one of the newer kids on the block. And like you said in your poem, we’ve got some real fun SAP work going on right now, private cloud with their rise program, which has some very interesting concepts to it. But prior to that. I spent a nice period of time at Mod Pizza. And that’s where we also saw a really interesting evolution during pandemic. So I got to experience that restaurant world when the world was going through a lot of different things and fits and start. So how that customer experience, engagement strategy, whatever you want to call it and also that. Employee experience while we had a lot that came to the table that I was really fortunate to get to manage and through those times. And so I think it’s, it’s that red thread for me has been through all of this various technology, whether it’s for accounting or for supply chain or for human resources or for payroll or for store management, you know, no matter what it is that has been kind of my. My mandate is to figure out what they’re up to, what they’re trying to get accomplished, and then, as you saw, the digital world kind of evolve around us in these. Last couple of decades, it’s really how they kind of intersect with it, where they meet it. And Josh, I’m always fascinated with your anthropology background. That’s a little bit of mine too, and I’ve often joked that I consider myself a technologist because it’s really about my beginnings in technology. We’re training people. How to use technology as they went from some green screens to some gooey? And it was like a mouse. This a right click so you know, even going back to some form factor. And then as that has just continued to evolve. And now my daughter who’s just, you know, almost a Gen. Alpha, you know, and just how they think and how they interact with things. So it’s really been an amazing consistent but wild ride. In technology, Bonnie and friends, because it’s just how things have changed and it’s a bit of, you know, the cliche there. It’s what we’re never gonna see it as slow as it is today, you know, cause it’s just gonna get faster. But just these,I feel really blessed to have done this career in the industries, you know that I’ve been able to partner with.
Bonnie Graham
Thank you, Tara. That’s quite an interesting, eclectic background and I have a question for you that’s on everybody’s mind. Well, maybe not Martin, but I know Josh wants to know what does ELF mean help me.
Tara Gambill
Health, beauty, health, beauty. The E stands for I’s the L stands for lips and the F stands for face. But we also stand with every paw and fill.
Bonnie Graham
Thank you very much. I know Josh asked me to ask you that. He was wondering because we see the packaging and we just, I thought little elves work. I actually am a customer and I love your products. So thank you very much. Josh. I’m picking on you. I’m sorry. Let’s go around the table. Martin Stenzig is back. Martin, I did the frequent guest meter for you this morning. I ran the numbers. And I figured out you’ve been on this show a couple of times. You’ve been on my technology revolution show you’re coming up in a couple of weeks. One topic I figure as of right now in the world, there are 14.793 people who don’t remember you. That’s it. So why don’t you? I, Josh, I’m gonna have to do one for you too. So, Martin, talk to those 14, whatever and refresh their memory. Who are you and why is this topic important to you? Welcome back. Welcome back, Martin. Go ahead.
Martin Stenzig
Well, thanks for having me back and I hope that’s a good thing. Let’s start with that, to the 14 point, something people that don’t know me yet, my name is Martin Stenzig. I’m the chief technology officer at Rizing and sort of have a double role. I’m also, you know, a mouthful of global head of SAP business technology platform at Wipro. So that doesn’t say anything you know to the 14.9 people out there, what it really means is I’m trying to use technology to make life better for our customers. Especially SAP technologies, that’s sort of what we’re focused on and we’re always sort of pushing the limits of that SAP technology boundary further and further. And that’s sort of the exciting stuff that we’re doing. So I always describe it as having the best job within the company because I’m allowed and actually encouraged to push the boundaries of what SAP is doing or can do to the limits and sort of see what else we can do, you know, with the technology and in connection with other technologies. Bonnie, you mention that, you know, a couple of weeks from now we’re talking about drones in connection with SAP and with the environments. Today we’re talking about sort of the customer limitations and then the customer integrations and the digitalization in SAP. So all of that is the exciting stuff. And yeah, at the end of the day for me, even though I’m a lifelong techie. And coming back to what Tara was saying, I was just thinking about the first Internet branches I did in order to tell everybody in the spectrum of 7 to 79 what the Internet is back in the day. So yeah, that sort of ages us. But what we’re doing these days is to really find the business benefits. So as I as much as I like technology and we’ll get back to that later. You know, I’m still in the mode of the business guy that actually wants to drive efficiencies or customer satisfactions or safety, you know, for the business by using technology. I’m not a friend of just throwing the next toy out there just so that I have the next toy, but it actually needs to make sense for everybody in the room.
Bonnie Graham
Thank you very much, Martin. Talking about going back in time, I remember when I was an early customer or something that had three letters, Tara, it was called AOL. And I remember when they sent used to send you free disks to load the system in. And I was living in great neck, NY and I was taking the train into the city for my job. I was working at a big, big bank. Back in the day, and when it was Phil Chase Manhattan Bank and I, the handshake was so interesting and you were connected. So I used to call some of my neighbors in who were captains of industries were very, very high up in industry men. And I’d say you want to come in and hear what it’s like to get on the Internet. And they said, what is that? What his e-mail and they came into my apartment, and I connected on AOL and we heard the handshake and they all said, wow, buddy, what in the world are you doing? It was just, I know, I’m really dating myself. Thank you very much, Martin. And we appreciate that Josh Greenbaum can’t wait to hear your bio. Let’s just go. Say the same 14.987 people that don’t remember Martin don’t remember you. I’m sorry.
Joshua Greenbaum
Well, you know, OK, so because we’re all competing for, you know, geezer quality memories here. I’m so old that I actually started before there were real computer science degrees, and I had the good fortune of walking into an opportunity where I had an employee who wanted me to get into your science background. I had as sort of been you know intimated, I actually have a background in social science, political science, culture, all those good things. I still that’s really what I do with my time and. And that’s really allowed me to be a translator. And that’s really kind of where I position myself. I speak techie. I get that world. I love it. I’m a nerd. I really AM. But I’m also a, you know, person who thinks that that humans and culture come first and, you know, and I and I try to help my clients navigate that world. So I’ve been at this. For you know, a few decades already, and you know, and the stories never change. It’s there, there’s a tension between what the cool new thing. Martin, you are sort of alluding to. And I’m attracted to it you know I could someone handed me one of those Apple pro things I’d probably stick it on my head. But on the other hand, I’m a pragmatist and increasingly as I get old and crotchety or older and crunchier, I’m more pragmatic in terms of let’s make sure stuff works and works for the purpose that it’s that it’s intended, and not just because some technology geek thinks it’s a cool thing, and not just because we’re following, you know, following the lemmings off the Cliff. So I’m sort of trying to there. Hold the lemmings back a little bit and let let’s stay grounded. And what? What works and what we need and really cherry pick a few little stuff that, that, that that is going to move. Move us forward and keep us from falling off that Cliff in the process.
Bonnie Graham
Thank you very much. By the way, I read some of the hands on reviews of people I know who either bought or were given the Apple Pro Vision Pro and one of them said he usually can stand a headset for one hour. He had it on for six hours, said it was the most amazing thing, but a lot of privacy issues. But that’s not our topic today. Maybe we’ll do one later. Thank you for the BIOS. All of you. No, we’re not competing for geezer of the week. Josh, how could you? But I would just. I would just say, nerd, nerd of the day. Or tech. I’m a. Tara I was keep punching code in what was that coding? Cobol on a Xerox Sigma 6 CP 5 where when I was learning my I got second degree in computer programming and operations and as part of my not internship but working in the in the control room computer room I had to stand on a step stool and have a disc pack that looked. Like a cake. Carrier, anybody remember those? And lift it into a disk drive and drop it in carefully. I was wearing high heels and suits and skirt suits in those days and I had to trot back down off the step stool after I delivered the disk drive. It was quite a time and then eventually I moved to code in PL-1 on an IBM 4341 and then we had a terminal where we could enter our code. We didn’t have to keep it. So no longer boxes with 2000 cards that could spill. There we go. So I’m going to claim the nerd of the nerd of the day. I’m I think I. To all.
Joshua Greenbaum
In heaven.
Bonnie Graham
All yours don’t usually admit that kids, but I still have my cobalt handbook and the silver cover is still into and green bar paper. OK, let’s go on. Tara Gamble your first. Let’s go to our. We have quotes that you each sent me a quote from a fictional character in the movie or TV show or a song. And I’m going to read the quote with a little bit of background. And I’m going to ask you to take about two minutes. And related to our topic today, so Tara Gamble has sent a quote from Baron Vladimir Harkonnen, played by Kenneth Macmillan in Dune 1984, Epic sci-fi film. Poem Frank Herbert wanted a harsh sounding name for the antagonistic family opposing house. A treaties in dune. He came across Harkonnen in the California Telephone book and thought it sounded so be it. So it is, in fact a finished name in earlier dressy. All the stuff I dig up the character was called Valdemar. Oscar. OK, so a set in the distant future, the story follows Paul treaties and his as his family. The noble House is thrust into a war for the deadly inhospitable desert planet Arachas. I’m going to leave it there. And here is the quote. He who controls the spice. Controls the universe. Tara. Wow, I love the quote, but I have no idea what it means. Talk to us.
Tara Gambill
Well, and it’s when I hear you give the history of it too, it takes me back particularly to the 84 version. That was something that I know my dad and I were really into, you know, rest in peace, Dad, we’re sci-fi, you know, big sci-fi, family. And he controls the spice controls the universe has been just something we’ve quoted in our family quite often, actually. And now that the new franchise is out, I think it’s breathed some life into it. And matter of fact, the second version, June 2, comes out on March 1st, my birthday. So I think they just know.
How much I love this kind of stuff and I to me why it related to this. It’s a bit of an easy relation because you can kind of have a play with what the word spice could mean. But to me in this context. The meta is digital, it’s you know again that digital customer and but really at the core of it I think is data. And that to me is really when you think about where the digital and customer strategies. Do converge can converge should converge whatever state that they’re in that that data concept of it to me is so important. Because that is where it begins with the feedback loop. And you know, and Martin, I even heard you talk about it in your bio. You know, you’re a fan of doing it for the right reasons, but not just the next shiny kind of thing. And so how do we even know what that could be? How do we even know what could be relevant to our customers? Whose minds are changing all the time? Feedback loops. It’s got to be feedback loops. And so I think that as we continue to talk about it, that’s one of the big convergence areas for me is the digital technology around collecting feedback, storing feedback, mining and analyzing all of that. Feedback through whether it’s right after I purchase something tell me how I did. Maybe it’s some kind of a periodic survey. You know, there’s all these different methods and means that you can get that feedback even in person, you know, not just the digital piece of it. So it’s really about. Using the data as the spice and the better that you can control it. And I also think those topics of compliance. And being, you know, taking care of, you know, customer data In general, but you know not only does the industry enforce that, that’s just good customer practice you know so you have to start developing those proof, you know, proof that we’re taking care of things as well. So for me it’s about. Utilizing that digital way to collect. That data do all of these various things with it so that you can inform your customer strategy and also your digital strategy, which to me is like the capability underpinning of it. You know, once I know what outcome I’m after now I can start, you know decomposing I can start mapping it to certain. Business capabilities that I need to get to that piece of value and then it kind of takes you into a whole enterprise architecture exercise at that point. But it’s the, it’s that control, the control of the spice for me was that control of the data and how you’re able to continually keep that feedback loop.
Bonnie Graham
Thank you very, very interesting. Let me go to Martins quote. This a classic. It’s a favorite Dory voiced by Ellen DeGeneres in Finding Nemo. Tara likes that two 2003. Was it really 21 years ago? American computer animated adventure film Dory is the regal blue Tang, A plucky, forgetful fish with short term memory loss starring all kinds of wonderful voices and the story of an overprotective clownfish named Marlin who, with Dory searches for his missing son Nemo, Marlin learns to take risks and comes to terms with Nemo, taking care of himself. And here’s. Quote oh, wonderful. Just keep swimming, swimming, swimming, swimming. Just keep swimming. Swimming, swim. I’ll stop whenever you want me to, Martin. Martin, what does this have to do with our topic? Go ahead.
Martin Stenzig
Well, it sort of. It feels like us, you know? And what I always want to tell my customers just keep on swimming because it feels like we’re never getting enough done in a in a day’s work. And there’s always a bigger goal. So. You know, at the end of the day, you just need to keep on swimming, you know, and sort of continue reaching for that goal. You know, with all the things that Tara just mentioned, you know, it’s sort of the. That’s. I always called the North Star, you know, and a lot of companies sort of are challenged with even finding their North Star well, but once you’ve found your North Star sort of keep swimming towards it or keep running towards it and then it’s just a question of velocity, how fast can you get there or how fast can you can you go? There will likely always be other things that will sort of. You know, deviate you from your from your course a little bit here and there. You know COVID is 1, you know you have other reasons why you can’t get there where you can’t make progress fast enough, but certainly don’t stop. I think that’s sort of the opposite of it. We see lots of companies that are sort of getting bogged down in in obstacles. And sometimes internal, sometimes external obstacles. So my message to really the industry as a whole, specifically the SAP industry is just T-bone swimming. You’re making progress. You’re doing the right things. Just make sure that you’re swimming in the right direction, not the wrong direction, so you don’t want to swim backwards. You know the message is, swim forward and keep on swimming.
Bonnie Graham
I’m thinking of the Super Bowl on Sunday and now at one point that no judge at one point they said he went in the wrong direction. He just lost you. But sometimes you need to find that hole to go back and then forward. So sometimes swimming probably is around the boy the other way. Make a circle and then find the forward direction. Thank you very much, Martin. I love that quote. Let’s go to Josh. Josh, I really want to sing this, but I don’t want to ruin the show.
Joshua Greenbaum
Ohh and I was gonna do it too. But yeah, we’d. Both be in trouble.
Bonnie Graham
Should we do it? Should we do a duet here? The quote is from everybody’s talking, which the subtitle of that song was echoes 1968 song by Fred Neal. Featured in the 1969 movie Midnight Cowboy, performed by Harry Nilsson’s, version was performed by Harry Nilsson. Reaching #6 on the Billboard Hot 100 chart in a Grammy after it was featured in Midnight Cowboy and Toby Creswell, writing in 1000. Songs notes said the song had parallels to the writer Fred Neil’s later life. Like the hero, he looked for fame to match his talents. He discovered success in his profession isn’t all it’s cracked up to be, and he wanted to retreat. Five years later, Neil rejected fame and lived the rest of his life in relative obscurity. And here’s the line, Josh. I thought you’d appreciate that. Here’s the. Mine I don’t want to sing, but I’m going to try not to. I’m going with. I’m going where the sun keeps shining in the pouring rain. Going where the weather suits my clothes. Did I murder that? It was it OK? Not too.
Speaker
Please. Bad. OK.
Joshua Greenbaum
Good. Nice.
Bonnie Graham
You Josh. Rescue me? Why did you pick this? And what does it have to do with our? But go.
Joshua Greenbaum
Ahead when Fred Neil wrote that back I my note said it was 66. Maybe, you know, first came out in. State it was really about retreating to a more meaningful place and I think that that’s, you know, it kind of got picked up in the movie for that, that aspect of it. But he’s saying, you know, we don’t necessarily need to, you know, to have the hustle bustle of the city, which is how it related to Midnight Cowboy. Sometimes we just need to go where, where the weather suits are closed. And I think of that and. In terms of human experiences and user experiences, because sometimes, as we’ve already discussed, we’re tempted, lured out into the wild and crazy frontier. But sometimes you just want to go to the place where you’re comfortable and where it makes sense, and that’s maybe not always what the technology world wants us to do, not. Always with the vendor community. He and the hips hipsters want, but sometimes that’s the right thing to do. So I put that there for some balance. I’m also a techno nerd, but I like to have that perspective.
Bonnie Graham
I like that, and it’s a lovely song. And I remember when and where I saw the movie. And I remember the shock value of the movie and yeah, that was some movie. Anyway, thank you very much all for the quotes. Now we’re going to move on to our statements, discussion statements that we’re going to go to a true round table. Tara, I’ve picked your statement, #4. I put it in the chat for you. What I’d like to do is I’ll read it. It’s brief and wonderful. And Tara, I want you to unpack it, and then I’m going to go around the table. I’m going to ask Martin to agree or disagree. With that, what you say, Tara? And then I’m going to ask Josh to agree or disagree with either Tara and or Martin or both, and then I’ll pick a statement from Martin. I’ll put it in the chat to you and then we’ll go around. It’ll be then Josh and Tara. And then one from Josh and you get the drill. So here’s what Tara told me in her statement. #4, she says in this digital era. Trust is the most valuable asset a customer first strategy is the vault. Every digital interaction is a deposit. Neglecting the vault jeopardizes the entire fortune. What a lovely metaphor. Very impressive. Even Josh is impressed. I’ve see that. Hmm. OK, Tara, even Josh. Tara. Well, he’s the master, I think. Never mind. Tara, please unpack this for us, and then we’ll go around the table.
Joshua Greenbaum
Even Josh.
Bonnie Graham
Go ahead.
Tara Gambill
Well, I think the low hanging fruit aspect of it is, you know data, you know data compliance and the data protection and just kind of that bare minimum of what companies need to do to protect customer data. You know, I know we’re not naming names of companies, but we all know whether it’s through our world of technology, or our world as a consumer, as a customer. For all of those notifications that I have gotten through my identity services, hey, here’s another little bit that got out there. And you know, now they can trace it more and let you know where that came from. And then there’s even the larger large scale, you know, making the 5:00 news type, you know. Reaches and whatnot, and whether that’s from a consumer facing product or whether that’s back office technology, there’s nothing that’s sacred anymore from that type of activity. And again, as I was mentioning earlier about controlling that spice. It’s the quote to me wouldn’t mean the same as he who has the spice controls the universe. It’s he who controls the spice, controls the universe, and so it really is like, why would me you as a customer want to give more if you don’t have faith and trust? That what you’ve already given is secure and not just didn’t necessarily from. I mean my technology person goes into the breach aspect, but even just being used in weird ways, you know. Whether it’s sold inappropriately, which is I guess, another kind of breach, but also just in the way hyper personalization can show up as well. And I think companies still struggle, AI is probably gonna help that out an awful lot. Just if you’ve got all those data pools right. But again, it comes back to how secure is that data? How much is it, you know, agreed upon that I’ve actually given you, what’s then coming back to me? Sometimes I think that whole advertising bit still gets a little freaky for some people when they have a conversation. And then you come to your mobile device and you see ad space that. It just literally reflects what you were just speaking about. I wasn’t involved in any digital method, but yet my ad space just changed, so I think there’s all these what’s going on here, you know, kind of the what’s listening to me type of a thing. But I do think it’s me again. I actually come with this for me as a customer, as a consumer. And why would I want to give you more if I can’t trust what you’ve already done with it? Therefore, how will you keep up with me? And how will you evolve? Giving me these outcomes that I continue to be after that are changing and I think depending upon your product, depending upon your customer, your cohorts you’re after, some of them are changing so quickly you can’t, you can’t miss that data, you will miss the moment and then it’s a whole different story.
Bonnie Graham
Thank you. Very interesting, Martin agreed. Agree or?
Martin Stenzig
I’ll heartily agree. And Tara already took all the examples that I had of, you know, the negative impact of what we’re seeing. And I have the same experience as Tara. You know, I’m talking in the kitchen with my wife about, you know, the next vacation to X&Y, and then I’m going in front of my computer and I’m opening weather.com. And suddenly, you know. Here is the ad for that particular vacation where you just like. No, this way too weird. You know, you can’t tell me that you didn’t know or you didn’t listen. So that is, that is the reality that is out there. I think when we’re taking it even to the broader levels like, what does that mean? What do we need to educate our kids on? I mean, I have little kids. And I think the appreciation of privacy that, you know, Josh might go into. Is one of those things that you know I would say is sort of paramount that we have to educate these days because they don’t even they don’t even know better. You know, they’re just sitting in front of the machine and they’re just bombarded with all of these different things. But they don’t know yet how it fits together so and they don’t appreciate that 20 years from now if somebody opens up a video chat or Facebook. In whatever you know, it might come back to haunt them. So yes, Tara totally agree with your statements around the, the appreciation, the spice. Part of the data I am, you know, let’s go back to master data. Do I believe that master data and the quality of master data is imperative and can drive business outcomes absolutely? There’s nothing worse than sending a different the wrong name to a customer and then sort of mixing them up. So you know that is the starting point, but the all the tentacles that are that are out there that we’re seeing on the privacy side on the user side is something that we have to get much better at as an industry in my opinion to allow me as the user to do to influence more as to. What can be done with my data now? Europe has the GDPR Act, we don’t have that here in North America. Some other countries have that. So I think that’s the step in the right direction, even though I’m not a friend. And of, you know, big and fed, you know, regulations. But I think we have strayed so far and that those are some of the examples that terror abroad so far into the realm of, you know, my personal my personal information is used now for political things for global aspects. That, you know, we need to be careful. At least, you know. If not enact some of those regulations that that are out there.
Bonnie Graham
Thank you, Martin. And also you mentioned what do we teach and tell our kids about giving information and privacy and the tentacles. What about older people who are dabbling on? I know, I know, the eyeballs are rolling and I’ve bailed my mom out of some poor, poor medical student in Arizona. Who, who? They took control of her computer when it was hundreds of dollars later to get it untangled. And yes, years ago anyway. Like she just said, he sounded really nice and no, no. And we had to change her credit card too, in instantly. We got rid of that. Josh. Agree or disagree with Martin and or Tara in the other order? Go ahead.
Joshua Greenbaum
Yes, yes and yes. And you know I it sort of reminds me of an old aphorism of mine, which is that, you know, integrity is the only thing you can take to the grave. Really. And I think integrity and interactions of any kind and those are business interactions. Those are personal interactions. It’s really essential for trust for the kinds. Kind of. Well, that most of us really want to live in and that is, you know that that is, that’s all inclusive. So yeah, what are you gonna do with this relationship, this commercial relationship or establishing? Are you gonna exploit me? Are you gonna you know or are you are we going to have a an honest quid pro quo. Give me a good product. I’ll give you a check that doesn’t bounce. And you know, and I think that I think that’s fundamental personally, that’s how I’ve always done business. I’ve been a sole proprietor for a long time. I don’t. I can’t fall back on a brand a reputation and A and a bunch of marketing team to scrub it. I got to, I got to earn it every day. And I think that’s a good that’s a good perspective for all of us of any you know, of any entity of any size is you, you got to earn it all the time and you can’t squander it, exploit or you know or you’ll lose that trust and that. That’s the point of the realm that should be the coin of the realm in life. And in commerce?
Bonnie Graham
That’s the core. Thank you very much, Tara. I appreciate the statement. I’m going to move on because I’m looking at the clock. I want to make sure we get one from Martin and. From Josh Martin, I put in the chat for you statement #2. Let’s get a little AI into the mix here. You say generative AI can simplify self-service processes and make them more efficient. The right combination of a ChatGPT and you mentioned JOULE SAP’s version with access to the customer’s information in a company’s business system can improve the efficiencies of standard processes. Examples can be HR, data update requests, detailed price information, or on which Rd. a utility is doing major construction work tomorrow. Yes, let’s make driving a little easier. Martin, go ahead, unpack for us.
Martin Stenzig
So I think we have all of this information that is in, in our business systems and I use the example you know you have a child and you need to send a request to HR, you know in the past what we would do is we send an e-mail then we hope that a poor HR tech is now entering that information and they’re typing the information correctly. So these days we have these new technologies like generative AI chat bot that you know I can chat with. And if that if that entity is enabled well enough, you know, and that is always sort of the caveat, you know, and it can do enough, then it should be and it is capable of updating all of that information or pulling information from the from the business system. So what we’ve seen is that Chat GPT, for example was built on sort of the web, you know the content of the web, I think the next, the next boundary we will break and I’ll look to SAP to certainly help us with that. Is to not only have that one time trained content in the model, but have immediate access to you know, functionality and access to the data that sits in your business system. Obviously all under the under the governance of proper safety and security. But what I wanna be able to do is I wanna be able to speak or at least form a general sentence and saying, hey, tell me where the next construction site is in my neighborhood, you know, and then you should be able to retrieve that because we have that information. So if, you know, a technician or a customer service rep sits in front of a computer and can find that out. There’s no reason why, you know, ChatGPT like AI shouldn’t be able to do the exact same thing. I think that’s where we have the right combination of. Hey there is data there that we want to bring to the customer. There’s customer that that’s are seeing value in it because I don’t have to you know go through a intermediary to enter and key some information into a system which doesn’t really add any value. So I want to just either update or retrieve information and those are the processes I like to order made because there’s efficiencies there the you know and you also take the faults out. Let’s go back to what was it 1994 when I did my first pizza ordinary delivery through the Internet on the web form. The funny thing was that they really managed to screw that one up on the way from the Internet provider to the pizzeria, so out came the wrong pizza. Where you say, OK, this of a perfect example of digitalization gone wrong because they didn’t automate the whole process. They just had somebody enter the web form and then somebody would literally manually fill out a form to the pizzeria and fax it to the pizza place. So give you an idea of sort of like, OK, good intentions, all the way execution. You know an F, but that’s not what we’re talking about here.
Bonnie Graham
Thank you for the example and Tara coming from the pizza industry. Appreciate that, Josh. I want to get your comments. So you agree or disagree with Martin and then we’ll go to Tara. Josh.
Joshua Greenbaum
There’s a lot to unpack. There’s a lot to agree with. You know, I think, you know, obviously, artificial intelligence will never replace or help with the problem of genuine stupidity. And so we have to sort of set our limits a little bit appropriately. And I do. I do personally worry about the problem of hallucination and the problem that that we have. We have large language models that that are so divorced from true human thinking and human. Concepts humans, the soul of what informs our personal interactions that I’m not exactly the biggest fan of it. However, you know my favorite sort of defense of artificial intelligence is that its main role is to take the machine out of the human and to the extent that we can demechanize if you will human work so that humans can get the opportunity to focus on things we’re good at, which is this complex inference. This complex ability to interact with the complex environment and make and make genuine. Choices that that have a that again are based on more than just a straightforward logical inference. I think that’s good. So I sort of stand in the middle of. That. But you know and certainly yes, it’s very important to get the right pizza made….but any efforts to make sure that doesn’t go well.
Bonnie Graham
Tara. And join us, what are your thoughts on either or both gentlemen, what do you think?
Tara Gambill
I agree. However, a it’s a bell curve principle and what I mean by that is that the chat bots I’ll use that as the specific example. It’s like they’re only as good as how well they’ve been trained and how much data they have access to. So to your point, Martin, to be able to access more information in our business systems it just gets better and better. So I think it’s expectation management as well like what do we want to point that stuff at. So it’s not like bots gone wild and we get so mad at the bots, we don’t want to use that. Either and I think that. So I think that that to me is at the crux of it is how I have experienced it as a customer as well. And I think from a customer like a design principle as well that there has to be a better a what next. So once we’ve exhausted that chat bots ability. And you know you’re at that part of the bell curve, you know, like we were talking about it. You need that complex situation management make it easier to get there. All too many times and it’s evolving. So I think it’s evolving the right way. But have you been through that experience where you really do work it, work it. You’re doing your best prompt engineering of your life and you just can’t get that last thing and you’re like, don’t put me back at that one 800 number. I’m going to lose my mind. So how we then keep that journey stitched along, I think is incumbent upon us as well.
I would give you an example though of where I’ve seen it work better in in reality at the pizza joint. We would send satisfaction surveys after your visit and we could only do that if you were a loyalty member and you somehow, you know, interacted with your loyalty. So we knew how to e-mail you and in V1 of that experience we just knew generally what day, what restaurant you went to and we could at some period of time send it to you afterwards. The V2 of that was actually looking at the transaction data and giving you relevant questions about your actual transaction. So we were able to see such an uptick in quality feedback. So again back to you know this, this gold, the spice concept of more data, it couldn’t have happened if you get these real generic, how did we do today, which again is you know NPS has its place in the world but you can’t go very far with that you need that next level. So we would have been able to have done that had we not hooked those surveys to more of it, not necessarily Gen. AI, but I think conceptually how you can evolve using that data for a better experience, yeah.
Bonnie Graham
Thank you very much and I will tell you that I get text messages asking for feedback, not in form of a survey on every doctor’s office visit of the PA. Was Evelyn served you properly so. And so from the new soil care company I hired for my lawn here in Tennessee, I now have to have soil treatments in addition to mulching. And aerating and I don’t even want to know? I’m supporting an entire community. The point is that I don’t know when the guys coming. I have no idea what he did, Tara, but I get it. A text message from the company. I won’t name them and they say, how did Bob do? And I say, who’s I don’t even answer because it’s they, you know, I don’t know who Bob is. And I find a little door hanger on the door in plastic that tells me who Bob was and what he did. But I never saw him. I never met him. I never talked to him. I had no explanation of what he was doing. But I’m supposed to leave feedback, so even very small local companies are asking for data about that feed that back. Luke you talked about, and I find it amusing. Ignore most of them. Thank you very. Thank you very much, Martin, for that statement. I want to move to Josh. We have time here. Josh sent me some very provocative statements. That’s why I was teasing in the beginning, Josh, the statement I wanted to use you already mentioned, I’m just gonna read it just because I can, Josh, and then I’ll read the one we’re going to talk about Josh’s number one statement is the real problem with technology is those dumb users who keep getting in the way of perfection. Do you want to elaborate on that before I go to the other one or should I? 1.
Joshua Greenbaum
I think it speaks for itself as long as everyone understands. I’m. I’m speaking sarcastically when I.
Bonnie Graham
It says it does.
Joshua Greenbaum
Say that, yeah.
Bonnie Graham
We knew that we knew that. Here’s the one statement #3, and this piggybacks nicely on what, what the what. Tara was just saying dirty data is the biggest impediment to digital transformation and most enterprise data is a mess. That’s a big statement in one sentence, Josh. Go ahead and unpack it for us. Then we’ll go around the table.
Joshua Greenbaum
You know where there’s so much unpacking. I mean, I’ve been following enterprise project failure. It’s much more interesting to study failure than success. And of course the number two reason projects fail is bad data, bad data transformation, bad data migration, bad data, etcetera, etcetera. The number one reason large language models. Are useless in the majority or they hallucinate massively is because of bad data. The reason we have a lot of user experience user interface problems is bad data. It goes on and on and on and so on. The you know it’s ironic because what this this sort of statement also is that I declare. You know continually that I’m really in favor of this big push to Gen. AI because it’s forcing companies to look at the quality of their data and they’re finding their data. And they need to fix it. So I think I think that’s a fast, you know that’s the bonus if you will. But it’s really it’s been a problem we you know every company you know I mean my data might be slight difference because you started a little bit smaller and maybe you had fewer legacy processes that you had to kind of move forward into the new horizons. But if you’re somebody that’s been around for more than 5 minutes has already has bad data and it’s, it’s the really it’s the biggest problem we don’t do enough with and the biggest problem that will continue to hold us back every single project I work on, every single one ends up having a massive data problem and yeah, it just doesn’t go away. It won’t go away. Even if you want to have the purest back data back end and next week, your board director is going to tell you to go buy this company, sell that that entity, and you’re back to square 1. So it’s a continuous process that we have to keep in the background of all of our forward-looking goals, we want to be customer centric. We want to be digital first. We got to be data 1st and let’s move from there.
Bonnie Graham
Gosh, I have. Just jump in for two seconds here. Tara Josh, whose job is it? The we have to fix it. We have to be more vigilant. We have to not have dirty data. Whose job is it? We talk about this. We in this. Abstract. Who does that?
Joshua Greenbaum
Well, the adult supervision in the room is the CIO, but the business, but the business owner needs to needs to stand up and.
Bonnie Graham
Thank you.
Joshua Greenbaum
She or he has got to get their feet, you know, dirty as well, because this this everybody’s.
Bonnie Graham
Thank you, Tara. I apologize deeply for interrupting. I just had to ask that question.
Tara Gambill
No, it’s just exciting. It’s just exciting because we you talked about, you know, kind of older, more legacy companies and that state of data, I think we’re experiencing in the newer SaaS market, you’ve got some different kinds of problems just in a different pair of pants because you’ve got this more modular swaps. You know it’s like a swap shop out there anymore, especially in some areas. So in my experience, especially at Mod Pizza as they grew so quick. Basically you just you can get these little saas apps to kind of fill capabilities in V1, V2 and then, oh my gosh, we’ve really succeeded here. We now need to bring in some, you know, V3 and more enterprise structure things. And then so even some of the newer companies I think are also dealing with data challenges. Not just the legacy, it’s just things are. It’s just scattered, it’s more modular and to me it underscores data governance. And how you are also connecting that leg bone to the knee bone with data conversions, data management and data governance in the business because that has got to be close to what their business processes are. And I think that’s also an evolution that a lot of companies I don’t think spend a lot of time in. Because it feels heavy. And it can look heavy through those governance processes, but that’s the spice, right? I was talking about spice, you know, context of customer that’s that cut the organizational spice and how you’re controlling. You know, your materials, your customers, your you know, what have you. I love how you put that, yeah.
Bonnie Graham
Thank you. Good, good statement there, Josh. Martin, join us. Agree or disagree with either or both you’re up.
Martin Stenzig
Wholeheartedly agree. I mean, let’s unpack a couple of things so a couldn’t agree more on, you know, good data is required to build a good model. I always equated to education. You put some, you know, bad textbooks in front of kids. They eat up the bad textbooks. And you know, they’re probably not going to be educated the way you want them to, and it’s the same with data so. So it’s a, it’s a, that’s the same. The same piece here as far as data. The challenge I have with and where I agree and disagree is the challenge I have with data initiatives is that what we are, I think doing badly for the past 10-15 years is that we in companies you know, realize that we have bad data. Then we’re doing a one time initiative for $15 million in order to clean up the data. Comes and then 5 minutes after that initiative is done, we are back-to-back to square one because we haven’t put anything sustainable into the mix that actually keeps and maintains that data. So it might not work for customer data, but in other areas I’m actually looking sort of over the fence and saying is there a possibility that AI might actually help us keep data continuously? Clean from external sources from you know, so why don’t we use AI to actually, you know, help us with the governance and I’m not replacing, I don’t want to replace sort of the end all validation of the customer data, but you know we’re struggling already with finding and completing data sets in in a lot of industries and what we have let’s give us give you a concrete example. We sometimes have asset data and the best asset data is out in the field. So if a customer is walking by his gas meter and all they would need to do is take a picture of that and upload it to the utility company to validate that the serial number is correct. Yeah, I should have an automated process that is AI based, or even if it’s if it’s not using but it’s an automated process that is updating the master data continuously. I give the customer you know a discount the customer has done his job, they’re getting a reduction on their bill and I just saved myself a technician trip out there in order to look at the at the meter in order to figure out or not. So those are the processes I envision. We can do a lot more about to say hey. A customer help me with maintaining your master data. Help me correct it. You know, let’s keep it and let’s keep it validated or continuously and not just. You know, the one time effort, whatever we’re realizing. OK. The ship has already sunk. Now everybody. And that’s usually Tara and Josh, I don’t know you see that as well but the business usually gets involved if it’s really. Be bad. Yeah. So somebody got the letter that they shouldn’t have gotten. Suddenly the businesses in awe and the CIA, the poor CIO is suddenly getting put on the on the pedestal. It’s like, why is your data bad? Yeah. And you turn around and it’s like, well, you know, I’ve tried to create this initiative. We need to do this initiative right now because now it’s important. And, you know, we blew something up or? A customer is unhappy and now sort of it’s an acting. So we need to get to the mode. Where to Josh’s point, where we understand that data in our organization is sort of, you know, one of the fundamental elements that if that is bad, you know the whole business is on a shaky foundation and we can’t afford that. And that’s sort of the mentality. I think we all have to get to and then you know, what are the processes, systems, tools but also the education that we’re giving to our people to say, be careful with this data. You know, use that data in order to get to the real efficiencies that we’re all look.
Bonnie Graham
Thank you very much. We’re just about out of time. What I would like to do, I’ve got about a minute and a half left. Tara, I just want to read statement #2 from you, which I believe wraps this up beautifully. And thank you to you. Tara Gamble. What a pleasure to meet you. I was so thrilled when I was introduced to you in our prep. Josh. Always wonderful to have you and Martin come back off and come back. Which you’ll do anyway, here’s the statement from Tara embracing a digital first strategy without a customer centric first mindset is like having the shell of a spaceship without the engine. It might look advanced, but it won’t take you anywhere meaningful. I’m going to end on that. Note I want to say thank you. What do you think? Good, good. Tara. That was a beautiful closing. I want to thank our engineer Jordan today at Voice America, and I’m just going to say I’m Bonnie D and my final statement is, well, this Rizing Evolution, the future proof enterprise talking about the future. People say the future is already here. And I say no. That was yesterday’s future. That was the future from 10 seconds ago. That sentence I just had in my mind is now in the past. So let’s put our minds and put our hearts together to try and make it a better one. There we go. Everybody wave goodbye we’re right on time. By LinkedIn, by Facebook, by YouTube, by voice. Erica, business and Jordan, we’re out.